Dazzling Killmen are among the most fearless and inventive bands of the early ’90s. The once-overlooked group is a major inspiration for a raft of bands that built on their combination of emotion and melodicism, among them Dillinger Escape Plan, Coalesce, Converge, and many more. Nick Green said it best in inducting their sophomore album into Decibel’s Hall Of Fame: “Face of Collapse remains completely out of step with rock music then or now; much like the Victorian cabinet of curiosities depicted on the album cover, each of its component parts is an object of wonder.”
There would be no Face of Collapse, however, without the Killmen’s tough experience on their Steve Albini-produced debut, Dig Out The Switch. The album is imperfect, recorded over one very long day, but it has many moments of brilliance. The band was initially unhappy with much of the sound; the remastering restores bass lines and corrects the drum sound.
Decibel is delighted to share the remastered version of Dig Out The Switch, which can be ordered here. While listening, read our conversation with guitarist and vocalist Nick Sakes and drummer Blake Fleming about making the album, reuniting, surviving cardiac arrest, and more.
Dig Out The Switch by Dazzling Killmen
Why has this record been out of print for so long? How difficult was it for people to get a copy of this?
NICK SAKES: It was somewhat available – the label Intellectual Convulsion had a deal with Revolver here in the States. I don’t know how many were pressed. We always thought about fixing it. It was a crazy recording, and it didn’t go as we had hoped. We always had this fantasy of going back and remixing it, having another shot. But we could never get on the same page. All three of us were living in separate worlds. We would occasionally bring it up, and then it would just kind of die on the vine.
BLAKE FLEMING: We weren’t super proud of it. We were pretty upset by everything. We’d gone to Steve (Albini, producer) and we had all these expectations, and we didn’t live up to them. And he didn’t live up to them for us either. There’s some pretty great music on there, and I think it’s worthy of a reissue. People looking for something more progressive, reminiscent of the first Replacements record (Sorry Ma, Forgot to Take Out the Trash)
will enjoy this. It’s scrappy.
I love that record. That’s the first Replacement record I ever heard.
FLEMING: Same for me. That’s still the one I go back and listen to the most, even though other ones get hailed more. I think that’s the way Dig Out The Switch is with us. It’s like the scrappy younger brother to Face Of Collapse. It was a necessary step.
Band Roots
How did the band initially get together, and when did this album take shape?
SAKES: I’m 61 now, so I was in my prime going to shows. It was well into my 20s, and it was my early midlife crisis (laughs). I would occasionally set up hardcore shows in St. Louis. I was hanging out with Darin Gray (original DK bassist), who had a band called Culture Shock. I would go with them when they played gigs. I was at their practices and just absorbed it. It was as if I were doing my internship. I never thought to play until finally, I just bought a guitar and said, “Hey, Darin, can you just show me the basics?
FLEMING: I played in a community college jazz band. I’d been in a Scottish bagpipe band. I had a couple of older brothers who were really into music. Darin and I started jamming during a break one day during this big band rehearsal. Eventually, all three of us got together.
What do you remember about recording Dig Out The Switch?
SAKES: It was a traumatic and difficult day. I got up early and headed to Steve’s house on a Saturday morning. We finished recording and mixing about one or two in the morning. We drove home that night after it was done. It was a pressure cooker, and we kind of choked on a lot of it, honestly.
What did your younger ears not like, and what have you grown to accept or appreciate now that you’ve had three decades to sit on this?
FLEMING: The rough edges have smoothed out a little over time. Time has a way of doing that with many things, and I think it’s done the same with this. I think it also allows for some objectivity – removing yourself from being in the middle of it and being able to listen to it as a listener, rather than somebody who is trying to make it happen.
We probably only listened to it just a couple of times in those 30 years, you know, every once in a blue moon. When we pulled it down, it was actually not too bad. As we age, we may forgive some of the audacity we had as younger people. Whether you like that record or not, it doesn’t sound like anybody. You can hear some influence for sure, but none of those influences sound like Dazzling Killman. What we did with them is a highly unique thing.
“It Wasn’t a Great Time To Be Us”
I did a story on the death metal band Autopsy last year. When Autopsy came out, also in the early 90s, no one knew what to do with them. Their career stalled, and they sat on this amazing catalogue for a long time. They came back, and now they’re bigger than ever.
SAKES: Look at where things were in the early ’90s. Nirvana pretty much set the tone for everything. It was a fever. Timing-wise, it wasn’t a great time to be us, you know? The miracle of the Internet arrived, and we had a kind of second life.
FLEMING: Kurt Cobain was like a train, pulling up all these people and all of his friends. We were running for the train, but we could never quite make it. We would pull up in towns, and sometimes there wouldn’t be flyers for the show. It’s like we didn’t exist. It changed towards the end. We got a booking agent. Things started to get more on track with Skin Graft; we were getting more legit. But it always felt like a party with all the cool kids, and we were never invited. Now people are looking back and saying, ‘Whoa, listen to what these guys were doing.’
When a new band or artist becomes popular, it often doesn’t inspire people to get more creative. It leads everyone to think, “This has been successful, so we just need way more of the same thing.”
FLEMING: Dazzling Killmen could barely get a fucking deal. We had distribution through Touch and Go with Skin Graft, but it was like a party, and we weren’t cool enough. It’s always like this. We weren’t enough of something or we weren’t too much of something else, you know?
SAKES: Maybe. I wasn’t hot enough? (laughs). I look like I do right now, just like I did back then. That is not going to sell records. Come on.
What changes did you make during the remastering?
SAKES: It was pretty easy because it didn’t sound very good to begin with. Steve (Albini) was extremely busy at the time and had his head in many different places. Not to say he didn’t focus and kick ass and do his best. He did, but we were trying to do a lot in a very short amount of time. There was no bass! The bass was the center of the band. That’s the problem. Albini was so guitar-oriented, and there was just way too much of my guitar playing. It just kind of flipped me out. Where the fuck is the bass?
FLEMING: There were these bass lines that were integral to the melodic element of the songs. One of the major tasks was to bring that out in the remastering. I also aimed to enhance the articulation in the drums, as some of the sounds I played were cleaner than what was represented on the original recording.
We basically set up and did that record from start to finish. And you can really hear the progression. “Serpentarium” comes in, and it kicks ass. We’re raring to go. As things progress, you can hear the start of the second side peter for a minute, and then it comes back with “Code Blue,” and it fucking rips. As we progressed further, certain things lacked logic because it was clear we were all fatigued.
Were you upset with Albini at all? How was your relationship after that day in the studio?
FLEMING: Albini had a light bulb on the phone to alert him whenever it was ringing, and it was basically always solid. The damn thing was just on because the phone was ringing constantly, and then we got done, and there were like 20 or 30 feet of faxes coming out of his bedroom.
Steve was always our mate. We love Steve. It’s devastating to know that he is no longer here. However, we were upset. We were so confused. Like, why does this sound like shit? Is it just us? It can’t be Steve. After a while, we started to realize it was a group effort. It was a snapshot of one day that has become a record that lives on in perpetuity.
SAKES: He recorded a band basically playing in their practice space. I just think three days and it would have been a different record. We just had kind of a bad day. Blake’s grandpa died a couple of days before we recorded. We couldn’t reschedule. We’d already been pushed back, bumped, by at least six months, for a woman named PJ Harvey (laughs).
What I love about Hüsker Dü is the same thing I love about your music – that combination of melodicism and reckless energy.
SAKES: I like what you’re saying about the ‘spicy sweet’ combo; many of my favorite bands have this sort of dual personality. Zen Arcade and New Day Rising are way up there in my favorite albums. Thank you for saying that, because not many people have mentioned that.
Are we thinking one go-round, or will this be part of your life going forward? Are you thinking about writing music?
SAKES: I think so. It feels really good. We’re already making plans for next year’s live events. I don’t want to jinx it, so I’ll keep it as vague as possible. We’re basing next year on three or four festivals and surrounding shows around those festivals.
Your music’s intense. It’s physical. It’s hard to play. How are you going to deliver that level of intensity on stage?
SAKES: In 2022, I had a cardiac arrest while out on a bike ride, and luckily, a nurse driving by did CPR on me and called 911. I’ve since then had a knee replacement, had to have a heart ablation for a-fib, and I’m getting a quadruple bypass in December after these shows. It will be fine, and recovery isn’t too bad. I’ve cleared this with my doctors, and I put it off to do shows.
My vocal cords are still in good condition, but I have to be careful. I need to start doing warm-ups consciously and drinking lemon water afterwards, as well as sucking on licorice root or something similar. I’ve never done that before, but now I have to do it. I’m okay with it. I ride my bike a lot. I feel like I’m pretty healthy, other than the health issues I mentioned.
FLEMING: I started working on this in January. It’s been a slow and progressive build to get back into that kind of shape. I’m a better drummer now than I was back then, but my tendons are 52 years old, not 20. I’ve been working on progressing so I can play all this stuff. It’s going to sound kick-ass. I think the band might sound better than it did the first time.
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